Great analogy with the clock! The Klesha instantly started subsiding or becoming less intense when I leaned into it intentionally, was amazed by it, and then became curious about how it worked. Does this method help in disentangling yourself in a non-judgemental way from the Klesha? It almost seems like the only thing needed was to acknowledge it with full immersion. What is really happening here?
Hi Nikhil - so good to hear from you, and I’m glad this worked for your mind!
You are exactly right - this method (just like others in Yoga) help to disentangle the Purusha (aka You) from the kleshas, and from the mind itself. The problem that Patanjali identifies early on in the Sutras is vritti-saaroopyam itaratra - “Otherwise, the Purusha identifies with the movements of mind.”
The next question is “why” - why does the Purusha identify with the movements of mind? The root cause of this identifiation is avidya. But this doesn’t really address why Dhyaan works to clear kleshas.
The Buddha gives an excellent analogy here. Once, he was walking with his disciples, and asked for a drink of water. One of the disciples walked over to the nearby lake, and reported that it was muddy, and that it was not clean enough to drink. The Buddha waited for a few hours, and asked the disciple to go back. The disciple came back and reported that the water had cleared a bit. A few hours later, the Buddha once again asked the disciple to return. This time, the disciple came back with a pot full of clean water. The Buddha then responded that the mind was like this. If you let it be still, the mud will settle.
In the same way, Dhyaan keeps the mind still (or as still as can be, since the gunas are always in flux). As a result, the kleshas “settle” (they are tamasic) after all, and the underlying sattva shines through. After this “settling” has been practised for some time, it becomes easier and easier to make the kleshas settle, until eventually they remain that way. This is just another way to frame the weakening of the kleshas, using a different analogy from the seed, sprout, plant tree, one we have been using. In other words, the niruddha samskaaras start to overpower the vyutthaana samskaaras.
But there is still a further question. Why do the kleshas settle when the mind is still? The reason is that kleshas thrive on movement, just like mud rises with the movement of the water, and because when the mind is focused, we are not adding additional content to the initial thought. We can experience this directly by trying to intentionally agitate the mind, and notice kleshas rising in the form of anger, frustration, irritability, etc.
Finally, there is one more piece here. Normally, we identify with the mind, due to avidya, but the identification itself is a manifestation of asmitaa. Any other kleshas strengthen this identification (after all, if avidya is the field, asmitaa is the stalk, and raag, dvesha, abhinivesha are like leaves).
By watching the kleshas carefully, with curiosity, and leaning into them completely, we treat it like an object, noticing it in detail rather than adding an additional vikalp to “summarize” it and shrug it off. Just by doing this, not only are we stopping further agitation, we are also automatically weakening asmitaa, and therefore raag, dvesha, and abhinivesha as well. It is like if you cut off the stalk, while the roots may still remain, the leaves will fall with it.
Please let me know if this answers the question, or if you have any objections or clarifications!
I see, that makes sense, thank you. I have some thoughts on this. Framing this phenomenology through the Yogic framework, can sometimes lead to contextual information getting lost in translation. For example, frustration can be caused due to actual life circumstances that need to be acted upon and fixed rather than absolved philosophically.
In terms of your analogy states, the clock telling us that it’s midnight, means that it’s time to sleep, so that we wake up fresh tomorrow which will reduce our suffering. Instead if we purely wonder at “inner workings”, the urgency might reduce and we might be less motivated to act (or go off to sleep in this example). I agree not all signals are useful, some are noise, but the ability to discern this seems important. And doesn’t the ability to discern require some imagination (vikalp)? It also requires memory (smriti). So it seems that some Kleshas are useful. How do we take this into account?
You are right that situations in life need to be dealt with - every action has a result, and thinking that we can intellectualize or “spiritualize” them away is a form of spiritual bypassing. The effect will still happen, and we are just fooling ourselves (aka bhraanti-darahan) if we don’t acknowledge our frustrations.
However, while external events can trigger frustration, just as the right weather can trigger a seed to sprout, the material cause (here, the seed) of the feelings of frustration that arises is not the event, but the kleshas within the mind.
Given this, the situations can still be dealt with even without the additional attraction, aversion, fear, etc, which are colourings on top of the vrittis (e.g. pramaan, vikalp, smriti, etc). In other words, it is possible to view and solve situations without being frustrated. In fact, action becomes even more effective when it is not weighed down by kleshas. For example, a mind agitated by fear is less effective at solving a problem than a mind without fear.
You are right again that vikalp and smriti are extremely useful tools, without which solving problems is impossible (e.g. you can’t solve a problem without considering it mentally). However, it might help to note that these are vrittis, not kleshas. In this way, through Yoga, we can weaken (and eventually remove) the kleshas, so that the vrittis are uncoloured (aklishta). Then, we can use vrittis as tools rather than become entangled in them. This way, we can address problems in our life effectively, and without frustration.
There is one additional point to make here, which is a bit more esoteric, but perhaps important given your question about motivation. All actions stem from desire, which stems from avidya (avidya-> kaam -> karma). Therefore, when desire disappears, the question arises whether motivation to act also disappears.
The answer to this is that motivation to act for benefit of the body-mind is seen as an object, like any other, and is not taken seriously. It’s not that one does not act - in fact, the body-mind cannot escape action. Rather, the sense of kartrittva and bhoktrittva (doership and enjoyership, respectively), disappears.
Given this, action can (in fact, must) still continue, just without selfish motivation. This doesn’t mean that the Yogi just sits there like a rock, because even this is an action, with consequences. Rather, it means that actions can be done with a completely clear mind, without any interfering thought patterns.
Another way to frame this is Ishvarpranidhaan - in particular the surrender of the fruits of actions. Once this Niyama becomes habitual, the body-mind can continue to act, solving all kinds of external problems, but without any causal connection with kleshas in the mind.
I hope this helps! As always, please let me know if you have any objections or clarifications 🙏🏽❤️
Great analogy with the clock! The Klesha instantly started subsiding or becoming less intense when I leaned into it intentionally, was amazed by it, and then became curious about how it worked. Does this method help in disentangling yourself in a non-judgemental way from the Klesha? It almost seems like the only thing needed was to acknowledge it with full immersion. What is really happening here?
Hi Nikhil - so good to hear from you, and I’m glad this worked for your mind!
You are exactly right - this method (just like others in Yoga) help to disentangle the Purusha (aka You) from the kleshas, and from the mind itself. The problem that Patanjali identifies early on in the Sutras is vritti-saaroopyam itaratra - “Otherwise, the Purusha identifies with the movements of mind.”
The next question is “why” - why does the Purusha identify with the movements of mind? The root cause of this identifiation is avidya. But this doesn’t really address why Dhyaan works to clear kleshas.
The Buddha gives an excellent analogy here. Once, he was walking with his disciples, and asked for a drink of water. One of the disciples walked over to the nearby lake, and reported that it was muddy, and that it was not clean enough to drink. The Buddha waited for a few hours, and asked the disciple to go back. The disciple came back and reported that the water had cleared a bit. A few hours later, the Buddha once again asked the disciple to return. This time, the disciple came back with a pot full of clean water. The Buddha then responded that the mind was like this. If you let it be still, the mud will settle.
In the same way, Dhyaan keeps the mind still (or as still as can be, since the gunas are always in flux). As a result, the kleshas “settle” (they are tamasic) after all, and the underlying sattva shines through. After this “settling” has been practised for some time, it becomes easier and easier to make the kleshas settle, until eventually they remain that way. This is just another way to frame the weakening of the kleshas, using a different analogy from the seed, sprout, plant tree, one we have been using. In other words, the niruddha samskaaras start to overpower the vyutthaana samskaaras.
But there is still a further question. Why do the kleshas settle when the mind is still? The reason is that kleshas thrive on movement, just like mud rises with the movement of the water, and because when the mind is focused, we are not adding additional content to the initial thought. We can experience this directly by trying to intentionally agitate the mind, and notice kleshas rising in the form of anger, frustration, irritability, etc.
Finally, there is one more piece here. Normally, we identify with the mind, due to avidya, but the identification itself is a manifestation of asmitaa. Any other kleshas strengthen this identification (after all, if avidya is the field, asmitaa is the stalk, and raag, dvesha, abhinivesha are like leaves).
By watching the kleshas carefully, with curiosity, and leaning into them completely, we treat it like an object, noticing it in detail rather than adding an additional vikalp to “summarize” it and shrug it off. Just by doing this, not only are we stopping further agitation, we are also automatically weakening asmitaa, and therefore raag, dvesha, and abhinivesha as well. It is like if you cut off the stalk, while the roots may still remain, the leaves will fall with it.
Please let me know if this answers the question, or if you have any objections or clarifications!
🙏🏽❤️
I see, that makes sense, thank you. I have some thoughts on this. Framing this phenomenology through the Yogic framework, can sometimes lead to contextual information getting lost in translation. For example, frustration can be caused due to actual life circumstances that need to be acted upon and fixed rather than absolved philosophically.
In terms of your analogy states, the clock telling us that it’s midnight, means that it’s time to sleep, so that we wake up fresh tomorrow which will reduce our suffering. Instead if we purely wonder at “inner workings”, the urgency might reduce and we might be less motivated to act (or go off to sleep in this example). I agree not all signals are useful, some are noise, but the ability to discern this seems important. And doesn’t the ability to discern require some imagination (vikalp)? It also requires memory (smriti). So it seems that some Kleshas are useful. How do we take this into account?
Hey Nikhil - thank you for the response!
You are right that situations in life need to be dealt with - every action has a result, and thinking that we can intellectualize or “spiritualize” them away is a form of spiritual bypassing. The effect will still happen, and we are just fooling ourselves (aka bhraanti-darahan) if we don’t acknowledge our frustrations.
However, while external events can trigger frustration, just as the right weather can trigger a seed to sprout, the material cause (here, the seed) of the feelings of frustration that arises is not the event, but the kleshas within the mind.
Given this, the situations can still be dealt with even without the additional attraction, aversion, fear, etc, which are colourings on top of the vrittis (e.g. pramaan, vikalp, smriti, etc). In other words, it is possible to view and solve situations without being frustrated. In fact, action becomes even more effective when it is not weighed down by kleshas. For example, a mind agitated by fear is less effective at solving a problem than a mind without fear.
You are right again that vikalp and smriti are extremely useful tools, without which solving problems is impossible (e.g. you can’t solve a problem without considering it mentally). However, it might help to note that these are vrittis, not kleshas. In this way, through Yoga, we can weaken (and eventually remove) the kleshas, so that the vrittis are uncoloured (aklishta). Then, we can use vrittis as tools rather than become entangled in them. This way, we can address problems in our life effectively, and without frustration.
There is one additional point to make here, which is a bit more esoteric, but perhaps important given your question about motivation. All actions stem from desire, which stems from avidya (avidya-> kaam -> karma). Therefore, when desire disappears, the question arises whether motivation to act also disappears.
The answer to this is that motivation to act for benefit of the body-mind is seen as an object, like any other, and is not taken seriously. It’s not that one does not act - in fact, the body-mind cannot escape action. Rather, the sense of kartrittva and bhoktrittva (doership and enjoyership, respectively), disappears.
Given this, action can (in fact, must) still continue, just without selfish motivation. This doesn’t mean that the Yogi just sits there like a rock, because even this is an action, with consequences. Rather, it means that actions can be done with a completely clear mind, without any interfering thought patterns.
Another way to frame this is Ishvarpranidhaan - in particular the surrender of the fruits of actions. Once this Niyama becomes habitual, the body-mind can continue to act, solving all kinds of external problems, but without any causal connection with kleshas in the mind.
I hope this helps! As always, please let me know if you have any objections or clarifications 🙏🏽❤️